The Quest List FAQ

On behalf of everyone at The Quest List, I'd like to welcome you to our community online. The Quest List was founded in December 1997 and is probably one of the oldest continuous ninjutsu-related communities online. This FAQ will attempt to answer questions you may have about the list, operations, and the work of Stephen K. Hayes.

Introduction

Welcome to The Quest List, the Quest Internet Discussion List. This FAQ is designed to help you get the most out of your experience on The Quest List. Please be sure to read it thoroughly and carefully.

For your convenience, it has been broken into several sections, each relating to a different topic. A fair portion of the content of this FAQ has been collected from Stephen K. Hayes' web site. The latest information can always be found at Stephen K. Hayes' SKH Quest website .

Enjoy your time on The Quest List! If you have any questions or items you would like added to this FAQ, please post them to the list!

Christopher S. Penn
The Quest List Moderator & Administrator

What's New

Updates here and there, links to SKHQuest.com, and events rules changed to reflect SKHQuest.com events.

Table of Contents

• Section 1: Quest List Operations Question & Answers
• Section 2: Martial Arts Related Questions & Answers
• Section 3: Religious/Spiritual Questions & Answers
• Section 4: Events and Resources
• Section 5: Miscellaneous Questions & Answers

Section 1: List Operations

1.1. What is The Quest List?

The Quest List is an Internet e-mail/web discussion list that focuses on the work of martial arts pioneer and master Stephen K. Hayes. The Quest List focuses specifically on Mr. Hayes' work and his To-Shin Do martial arts system. The Quest List is a list that offers its members a chance to discuss Mr. Hayes' work and receive information and news about upcoming articles and events. The Quest List is currently hosted by Google Groups.

The Quest List was created by J. Courtland Elliott and Christopher Penn in December, 1997.

The Quest List opened a companion web site in 2001, www.thequestlist.com, to provide another source of information online.

1.2. How do I subscribe/unsubscribe?

To subscribe to The Quest List, use the form on the right...

1.3. How do I post?

To post, send e-mail to The Quest Listist@googlegroups.com

1.4. What should I post?

When you first join The Quest List, please post your name, school and instructor you train with, where you are located, how long you have been training, and why you joined the list.

You may post comments, discoveries, questions, opinions, and virtually any thing at all as long as it is directly related to the work of Stephen K. Hayes, the SKH Quest Center system/To-Shin Do martial art, or the Blue Lotus Assembly. Please keep the tone of your posts civil, non-political, and non-confrontational. This is a moderated, family-friendly list, so if your post is deemed offensive/inappropriate, it will simply be deleted.

Regarding the posting of events & seminars: please post only events and seminars which appear on the Events page of SKHQuest.com.

Please be sure to sign your name, training group, and location at the end of every post! e.g.

• Your Name
• Your dojo/training group/distance learning student
• City, State, optionally country
• Optional URL or other contact information

1.5. What is the Acceptable Use Policy?

The Quest List Core Values

• We encourage our fellow members to speak their minds in an honest, positive, constructive fashion!
• We encourage our fellow members to share their discoveries in their own personal quest to be the best!
• We encourage positive, constructive criticism when solicited.
• We observe net etiquette, quoting what is relevant, and not wasting others' time and space on what is not.
• We ask questions to improve our own experience and the experience of our fellow members.
• We acknowledge that the world is a big and diverse place, one that can comfortably fit all opinions without judgement.
• We make every effort to keep posts relevant to training and personal development.
• We avoid misleading or misdirecting our fellow members in their quest to be the best!
• We avoid taking discussions too personally or seriously. Life is meant to be a fun adventure, not a constant war.

Specific Action Items

Avoid copying an entire previous post only to append "I agree!" to the end. Copy only what is relevant.

Avoid going too far off Quest-related things: politics, religion, taxes, etc. Keep posts relevant to To-Shin Do training and the work of An-Shu Stephen K. Hayes.

Always sign your posts with your full name, training group or dojo, and location.

1.6. My post didn’t show up for a really long time. Why?

Responses on the list are moderated. The list administrator has a nice day job that sometimes prohibits instantaneous work on The Quest List. Thus, your posts may take a little while, but rest assured, if they are approved, they will get there. The average moderation time for a post is between 4 and 24 hours. Follow the terms of service and Acceptable Use Policy and your questions and comments will always get through!

1.7. How did The Quest List get started?

This list began as an experiment after suggestions by J. Courtland Elliott at the 1997 Tai Kai. It officially went beta in December 1997, and while welcomed by Mr. Hayes, was not officially recognized as an SKH Quest program or feature. The list became fully active in production mode in January 1998.

The list and its workings are still classified as unofficial, which means that we receive no funding from the SKH Quest corporation, nor are we authorized to make any claims or contracts on their behalf. We do receive occasional guidance from Mr. Hayes and his staff members, but the list is intentionally independent of the SKH Quest Corporation. We do not represent Mr. Hayes, his staff members, or the SKH Quest Centers.

1.8. Where's the disclaimer and waiver of liability?

The Quest List Internet Discussion List is an independent discussion list that supports the work of Stephen K. Hayes. It is NOT officially endorsed or supported by Stephen K. Hayes or the SKH Quest Corporation. The participants of this list accept any and all liability for their actions and the consequences thereafter, as well as the actions of others and subsequent consequences.

By requesting membership to the list, the participant accepts the terms of service and acceptable use policy. At any time the participant may choose to void this agreement by unsubscribing. At any time, you may be unsubscribed with or without notice by the list administrator.

To-Shin Do is a martial art. Martial arts are potentially dangerous, even fatal. Before beginning or changing your physical fitness activities, be sure to consult your physician or other authorized health care provider. Discussions and posts on The Quest List are for informational purposes only, and martial arts should not be practiced without the guidance of an authorized instructor. Neither SKH Quest Corporation nor The Quest List list make any representation, warranty, or guarantee that the techniques and situations described or illustrated on this list will be safe or effective in any self-protection situation or otherwise. You may be injured or killed if you apply or train with the techniques and situations presented on the list. To minimize the risk of training injury, nothing described on the list should be undertaken without the guidance of an authorized, expert instructor after a thorough medical examination.

Federal, state, or local laws may prohibit the use or possession of any of the tools or techniques described on this list. Specific self-protection responses described on the list may not be justified in any particular situation under current laws. Neither the SKH Quest Corporation nor The Quest List list make any representation or warranty regarding the legality or appropriateness of any tool or technique described on the list.

Section 2: Martial Arts Questions

2.1. I want to train in To-Shin Do. How do I get started?

You can find a Quest Center near you at http://www.skhquest.com/

You can also enroll in the Distance Learning Program there. The Distance Learning program is a 12-DVD set that will get you started.

2.2. Is Stephen K. Hayes still in the Bujinkan?

Yes.

2.3. What is the connection between To-Shin Do and the Bujinkan?

The original 9 family schools which compose the Bujinkan training curriculum handed down over the last millennium are:

• Gyokko Ryu Koshijutsu (玉虎流骨指術)
• Koto Ryu Karate Koppojutsu (虎倒流骨法術)
• Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu (戸隠流忍術)
• Takagi Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu (高木揚心流柔術)
• Shinden Fudo Ryu Dakentaijutsu (神伝不動流打拳体術)
• Kukishinden Ryu Happo Biken Jutsu (九鬼神伝流八法秘剣術)
• Gyokushin Ryu Ninjutsu (玉心流忍術)
• Kumogakure Ryu Ninjutsu (雲隠流忍術)
• Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu (義鑑流骨法術)

These 9 family schools and the techniques & strategies in them also compose the backbone of the curriculum of To-Shin Do; the formal art name is To-Shin Do Goshin Taijutsu (刀心道護身体術). What makes To-Shin Do "different" is that the educational methods in which the 9 family schools are "wrapped in" are designed in a manner for American students to more easily and quickly acquire the skill base needed to succeed at self-protection.

Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi instructed his top students, including Mr. Hayes, to tailor the educational methods to best suit the culture, society, and student types to which they were teaching. To-Shin Do is the result of Mr. Hayes' work towards the goals given to him by Grandmaster Hatsumi.

2.4. Is Stephen K. Hayes still a student of Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi?

Yes.

2.5. There's no Quest Center anywhere nearby. Where can I go to train?

Feel free to ask the list about any training opportunities in your area. You can also enroll in the DVD Home Progam located at SKHQuest.com.

2.6. Is Bujinkan rank and To-Shin Do rank the same?

No.

2.7. Do To-Shin Do practitioners learn to sense intention and the premonition of danger?

Yes.

2.8. Does An-Shu Hayes give out Bujinkan go-dan rank?

No.

2.9. How do To-Shin students get Bujinkan Dojo diplomas from Hatsumi Sensei if they want them?

An-Shu Hayes will write to Hatsumi Sensei and request the diplomas, and Sensei either mails them to An-Shu Hayes or An-Shu Hayes will pick them up from him when he is in Japan.

If a student would like to take the Bujinkan 5th Degree sword test, An-Shu Hayes will make arrangements for that person to visit Japan and take the test at a time that is convenient for Hatsumi Sensei. An-Shu Hayes does not give the Bujinkan 5th Degree award.

Section 3: Religious/Spiritual Questions

3.1. Is Stephen K. Hayes a priest?

Yes. Mr. Hayes is ordained as a priest in the Tendai Mikkyo Buddhist religion.

3.2. Do I need to change religions to train in To-Shin Do?

Absolutely not. While we encourage everyone to learn and explore more about the paths people take to find spiritual fulfillment in life, there is absolutely no requirement, request, or suggestion that someone change the path they have found to provide them with such fulfillment.

Section 4: Events and Resources

4.1. There are a lot of Web sites and other discussion groups about ninpo and To-Shin Do. Where do I get started?

The best place to find the "final word" about To-Shin Do is http://www.skhquest.com. This is the master Web site that officially represents Stephen K. Hayes.

The best place to find out what the list has discussed in the past is to read The Quest List discussion archives. Chances are the topic or topics being discussed have been discussed in the past, and you may find some interesting reading there.

4.2. Where can I find a To-Shin Do event to attend?

The best place to start is http://www.skhquest.com/ for the latest schedule of events featuring Stephen K. Hayes.

4.3. What's a good event to attend?

One of the very best events to attend is the Stephen K. Hayes Fall Festival, held every year in September or October. Fall Festival brings together anywhere from 80 - 300 Quest Center practitioners and other students interested in To-Shin Do for three days of networking, training, and discussion. It's held in Dayton, Ohio at the Holiday Inn Holidome near Dayton Mall. Lunch is provided, and it's usually pretty good.

4.4. Are there books and videos for To-Shin Do?

Yes. Visit http://www.skhquest.com/

Section 5: Miscellaneous Questions

5.1. I have lots of questions about Stephen K. Hayes. Where should I ask them?

The Quest List Discussion Group is a great place to ask.

5.2. I heard a rumor about Stephen K. Hayes and want to know if it is true!

Feel free to RESPECTFULLY ask any question, and list members will do their best to bring as much clarity as possible to your question.

5.3. Isn’t it wrong to be "selling" a martial art instead of teaching it?

Quest Center Owner Brett Varnum:

The professional standards and business practices we strive to maintain make it possible for us to take care of our students in the way that they deserve and allow those of us who have spent many years of our lives acquiring the skills we teach to make a dignified living for ourselves and our families.

Choosing to provide our martial arts training experience in a clean and professionally run facility with a well-trained staff only enhances the experience of learning, what for many of us has been, a life changing martial art.

Quest Center Owner Gary Bolton:

I own a Quest Center and I, like any other professional, should be compensated for the services that I provide to my clients (students). If we were talking about any other profession the argument would be a short one.

Bujinkan Senior Master Instructor Jean-Pierre Seibel:

In the 80's there was a group of us that enjoyed very much training with An-Shu Hayes. One of our biggest concerns was that An-Shu Hayes would have to get a job, to support his family, and we would lose access to our teacher. Not just the countless hours that he would spend with us teaching, but also all the time he would work on translating kata for us, research the meaning of lessons for us, and create new ways to teach us this art, an art that had never been, and needed to be translated into English.

We tried our hardest to keep that from happening. We would arrange seminars and workshops, so we could hire him to teach. We would promote his books and get people to read them, we would get people to subscribe to his newsletter, anything we could to keep him in the game with us, and out of Corporate America. And it worked, we got all the training we could want.

Bottom line is, we didn't feel it was right to ask someone to live a substandard life just for our amusement and we put our money and effort where our hearts where. Many of us had the life we wanted to live, and so should he. So we managed to have it both ways. Now that is kind of built into the [SKH Quest] system. You get An-Shu Hayes as a teacher, and you don't have to worry about whether he'll quit teaching to be able to send his kids to college.

It really is a good deal if you want to think about it. And as you think, consider a world with no access to Stephen K. Hayes or the way he teaches because his career at AT&T or CitiGroup has him too busy to teach anymore. It happens.